Androgyne, Androgynous, Androgyny
Androgyne I think more of refers to how you relate to yourself. How you identify on a deep primal level. Its how you are in the sense of "being". It may be something unknown consciously and not understood fully. Yet its something that has a very real influence on day-to-day life. Its something that is 'there' and has always been there in one form or another.
I personally think of it as a life force. A force in life that dwells in a certain place where I am at ease.
The concept of gender is something elusive to me. I know the raw definition. However, even over the period of my life seeing it evolve and change. That which is androgynous, masculine, feminine, or outside of those things that people, or individuals , even myself consider, relate to, and interact with: as opposed to those that identify as 'being' at their raw primal core a gender which can be called androgyne.
The part of me that knows, feels, thinks, explores, decides, judges, and travels that path on the journey, that identity that sometimes I put a word on, is my gender identity.
As to personality vs identity I think they can be different or they can be similar. One can identify as a certain way, yet choose or feel compelled for whatever reason, to not show it outwardly. Or one could be non=androgyne, yet have a personality that feels for some reason androgynous. There are some gay feminine guys and lesbian girls that I have never heard identify as androgyne, be extremely androgynous in their personalities. Same with heterosexuals. My best friend from childhood is very androgynous, though he never identified as being androgyne. Unless they are hiding their inner feelings of being androgyne, I cant really assume wheither they are or not, but for the time being I would have to conclude that they are not. That it is just their comfortable way of expressing their personality, not that they feel like their gender identity is being androgyne.
Having said that I would not want to fall into a trap of thinking that the opposite is true in that no person's androgynous personalities have androgyne gender identities. If one is looking to find other androgynes, other evidence must be gathered before judging who is who if one is looking for others. And that androgynous personality may or may not be one indicator. That it merit further talking and sharing of experiences.
I have heard the word 'Androgyny' used to describe the learned social construct of acting in androgynous ways. Maybe this is a word along the lines of someone's personality.
I am not sure about the raw definitions, but how I have seen it is.
Androgyne= Gender Identity; How one Identifies gender wise, State of Being
Androgynous= Expression, Behavioral, External Cues, Communications
Androgyny= Social relations, Roles, Interaction, Way of Thinking, Methods of Living, Techniques, (along the lines of Sandra Bem stuff) Social-Cultural
Which in my mind is similar to :
Man, Masculine, Manly
And
Woman, Feminine, and Womanly
Thats my opinion at least.
KK
Androgynous would be defined by all aspects of person, behavior, how they dress, anything that someone else can notice.
You could have an androgynous behavior without changing the way you dress from the gender norm. There's no reason why how you dress and how you act should be tied, but they often are.
I agree. There is no reason why anyone should feel compelled to dress, behave, present themselves, or look how any constructed social thing called Gender scripts one to dress. Only personal preference, unless one feels obligated to dress, act, or behave a certain way by choice.
This is my opinion expanded with examples.
Androgynous I look at as very visual or direct. Its the four of the five senses: sight, smell, touch, sound (can't see taste fitting in there). Its an adjective used to describe.
Androgyny rather is more psychological yet still learned more or less. Learning to be a certain way, or act in certain ways that are more equal with gender roles, behavior, and characteristics. Such as raising children equally, division of labor without glass ceilings or division, division of chores around the house, appropriate work behavior and ethics, general social behavior that has neutral or both masculine or feminine techniques, communications styles (Not just Mars or Venus talk and understanding, rather proficiency in both languages and understanding).
And example of American cultural gender scripts for masculine, feminine, nuetral, and both gender traits/personality can be found http://www.ta-tutor.com/webpdf/ram184.pdf. According to Sandra Bem, having nearly equal, or very little degrees of difference between how strong the masculine and feminine attributes in a person is psychological androgyny. These types of behavior, characteristics, and aspects are widely accepted as being learned and not really depending on gender identity. Though they are behaviors and can be part of one's personality and be involved in one's roles, including gender roles.
Full list of characteristics to see the neutral ones is at http://www.ta-tutor.com/webpdf/ram183.pdf
Is this the types of personality qualities that you are refering to?
Feminism deals with this learned Androgyny as an ideal, though may occasionally use the word 'Androgynous' in the same sense to also describe this.
Gender identity: {Using Seshatneferw's classification male, female, both, none, not clear http://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,19108.msg147275.html#msg147275} Self defined.
Gender expression: (anywhere from masculine to feminine, including neutral, other, and androgynous depending on personal preference)
Gender roles: more of the behavior, personality, and characteristics psyghologically presented for certain situations and even different for varied situations.
Gender scripts: Those cultural bahavior, characteristics, ideals, aspects in a society or group that cues, causes, or leads to an average society member to judge, blur, adhere to, or confuse another person as being of the {whatever} gender.
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